John Harrison, UK Managing Director and Global VP of Marketing at Schaffner, a global company specialising in providing solutions for EMC and power quality, joins the latest episode of the Marketing B2B Technology podcast.
In the episode, John discusses the challenges and benefits of balancing two job roles and emphasises the importance of aligning sales and marketing to strengthen the brand and drive sales. He believes in leading with a forward thinking approach, understanding customer needs, and staying ahead of industry trends, particularly in the niche area of EMC.
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About Schaffner
Schaffner plays a vital role in building a sustainable future in the new era of electrification. Headquartered in Switzerland and with subsidiaries around the world, Schaffner is a global leader in electromagnetic solutions that ensure the efficient and reliable operation of electronic systems. The Schaffner Group are experts in EMC filter solutions, harmonic filters, electromagnetic components and electromagnetic solutions. Our passionate and knowledgeable employees empower our customers to develop reliable electronic devices and systems that meet compliance standards and deliver increased energy efficiency.
This is how we deliver…
MORE POWER TO YOU.
About John Harrison
John Harrison joined Schaffner in April 2022. He is the UK MD and Global VP Marketing. He has spent 25 years in the electronics industry primarily within the connector space for Molex. John has extensive international experience having lived and worked across Europe and the US, covering a range of markets from Industrial to transportation. His most recent experience prior to Schaffner was within the IOT space for Ramtech heading up their Global Marketing and Sales activities. John is passionate about EV and increasing speed of adoption across the globe.
Time Stamps
[00:43:0] – John provides some background to his career.
[03:30.8] – John discusses how he manages the demands of both the UK Managing Director role and Global VP of Marketing role.
[05:04:7] – John shares his views on whether he thinks marketing and sales should be closer together or not.
[06:05:2] – John talks about what he’s looking for from marketing to make the role of MD more successful.
[13:38:9] – John shares his approach of trying to get salespeople, marketing people and engineers working more closely.
[19:31:0] – John talks about how he sees his role changing with technology over the next five years.
[20:49:1] – John shares some advice to those looking to get into marketing.
Quotes
“Marketing and sales need to be closer together. The ultimate aim for both is to drive more customers and value for the brand. We need to focus on the customer’s needs, whether it’s through direct interaction or brand messaging.” John Harrison, UK Managing Director and Global VP of Marketing at Schaffner.
“From a sales perspective, it’s not just about leads. It’s about ensuring the brand is seen as a partner and thought leader, especially in specialised areas like EMC.” John Harrison, UK Managing Director and Global VP of Marketing at Schaffner.
“It’s crucial to put yourself in the customer’s shoes. If a piece of marketing material doesn’t resonate with the customer, it’s not effective. Marketing should be about creating content that truly addresses the customer’s needs.” John Harrison, UK Managing Director and Global VP of Marketing at Schaffner
Follow John:
John Harrison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-harrison-3552ba14/
Schaffner website: https://www.schaffner.com/
Schaffner on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/schaffner-gruppe/
Follow Mike:
Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/
Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/
Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/
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Transcript: Interview with John Harrison – Schaffner
Speakers: Mike Maynard, John Harrison
Mike: Thanks for listening to marketing B2B Tech, the podcast from Napier, where you can find out what really works in B2B marketing.
Today, welcome to Marketing B2B Technology, the podcast from Napier. Today I’m joined by John Harrison. John is the UK Managing Director and the global VP of Marketing for Schaffner. Welcome to podcast, John.
John: Thanks, Mike. It’s great to be here.
Mike: It’s great to have you on. And as always, you know, what we’d like to do is let you tell us a bit about your career and how you’ve got into the role that you’re currently holding?
John: Yeah, well, it’s a little bit of a long story, really, mate. I spent, you know, sort of early part of my career in sales at a connected company called Molex. I’m sure many of your listeners will be well aware of covering a number of customers across the UK. And you know, as we’ve been through the various sales cycles, you move from customer to customer or Market to Market, and so it’s given me a really good, broad overview of what’s happening in the marketplace, where the technologies are moving. And after, you know, around 10 years or so in those sorts of roles, I moved at the Netherlands for my first overseas role, where I was had my first sort of glimpses into marketing, more Industry Marketing, as opposed to corporate and brand marketing. And that was a military area, really quite a short term assignment before I moved up to Sweden, where I moved into more sales management and general management. Now there was really my first opportunity to run international teams, and that was something that I really enjoyed, being able to travel having a multicultural team. And it was really those, I guess, first couple of years, or first three, four years in those roles that really pointed me in the direction I wanted to sort of continue in my career. So I moved back to the UK to take on a larger European role at Molex, and before then going over to the US for a role within the industrial space. So that was a really interesting time of of not just my life, but my family’s life, moving over there again, experiencing something different. And I think that’s really the key to an interesting career. And to sort of build your experience is to try different things. Certainly not everything’s going to go to plan, but it gives you the opportunity to try something different. I then moved back to Europe and left the industry briefly to work in a construction wireless company, and that’s where I moved into a sales and marketing director role, and again, that gave me sort of the first insights into marketing agencies. We started to talk to them about, how could we promote our products, how could we build our brand across the industry? And that gave me really good experience in working with agencies, particularly in trying to find the right agency. I think that, you know, that’s key, and that’s been really good for our work with Napier. And next I moved to Schaffner, where I am now in my UK MD role, and I’ve taken on the global VP role.
Mike: So that’s interesting. I mean, obviously, from an outsider, it sounds a bit like they had two jobs, and they gave them both to you, rather than necessarily having a single job that combined UK Managing Director and global VP. I mean, how do you manage to balance demands those two really quite different roles?
John: Yeah, well, interestingly, the original role I applied for was the UK MD role and chatter had been through a big rebranding exercise. Just as I started, I saw there was a huge opportunity for us to do more with the brand, and I’d sort of given some ideas and made my sort of voice heard. And the CEO at the time said, yeah, that’s all that’s that’s great, John. So if you want to do something, then you go and do it. So the role for the VP role came sort of by accident, really, and it’s something that I’ve, you know, I’ve really enjoyed, but to balance the two roles, it’s really about priority. Of course, I have customers in my UK role, and I need to focus on those. First of all, they’re paying the bills, but the VP of marketing role gives me an opportunity to really look a little bit more longer term. I’m also fortunate that I have a really good team in both areas that enables me to sort of have the time to focus on on both. And whereas they’re doing the day to day activities. We also work, obviously, with our various partners and agencies, that enables me to have the time to think about what we’re doing on a more strategic basis.
Mike: And presumably, if you do a good job in that VP of marketing role, it’s actually going to make that UK MD role easier, because it will drive more sales.
John: Yes, exactly, and it gives me an opportunity to really see whether the things that we’re doing in the marketing side are actually having an impact on the sales side.
Mike: I mean, that’s interesting, because people talk a lot about this, this separation between marketing and sales. Is it your belief that marketing sales should be closer together, or do you think it’s better running them separately?
John: I think that. To be closer together. And you know, if you think about what the ultimate aim for both activities, it’s about customers. Maybe you know they’re talking to customers in little different way. But ultimately, we need to drive, you know, more customers, more value for shasner and for any brand that in that matter, towards us. And that’s about saying the right things, understanding the value that we bring, understanding problems, understanding the solutions, and whether that’s in front of the customer, over a desk or over a design, or whether it’s electronically, or thinking about the brand as a whole, the customer has to be the focus of all of that activity.
Mike: That’s interesting, because I wonder what in your sales role, your more sales focused role, as MD, you’re expecting from marketing? I mean, is it the classic, we want good leads? Is it we want the market to be interested in the products and be aware of them? I mean, what are you looking for from marketing to make that MD role more successful?
John: Well, the easy answer to that is, is leads. Everybody wants good leads. But that’s not quite as simple as it seems. And often, if you put too much focus on lead activity, you can really potentially damage the brand. And over the long term, you know, if you’re not putting out good, good assets, good content, then the leads won’t come. So it’s a careful balance. What I really want, as my UK MD hat on, is for customers to see the brand as a partner, as a thought leader, someone who really understands, in our case, EMC. So if our customers are thinking anything to do with EMC, we come to someone who knows about it, and that Schaffner, then I’ve done a good job with my other hat on my my VP of marketing hat. I mean,
Mike: it sounds like to summarize it, you want to be seen as a leader. You want people to to have you at the top of their list when they’re thinking about a supplier for in schaffner’s case, EMC,
John: yes, definitely. And if you think about EMC, it’s quite a narrow field within electronics, and there aren’t that many people who really understand EMC. So you know, our job is to really understand EMC to the highest level of detail and allow our customers to focus on what they do well, which is creating innovative new products and solutions for their customers. When it comes to EMC, we want them to say, I’m not so sure about EMC, let’s go to Schaffner. They know what they’re doing. We’ve seen the white papers. We’ve seen the articles. We know they understand EMC, let’s bring them in to start to talk to them about solutions for our products and our solutions.
Mike: I love that. I think that’s a really clear vision for marketing. So on the other side, you know, when you see problems, what do you think from a sales point of view, marketers tend to get wrong.
John: Sometimes it can sort of be over exaggerating. You know, where your expertise is. I think we need to be really, really careful. And we’re lucky in some respects, because we’re quite narrow in terms of our, you know, our market reach and the technology that we focus on. But if you’re a larger organization, the challenge for me is, how do you, how do you really cover all of that without becoming just too sort of broad, then you lose that level of knowledge that you’re trying to portray to the customer? I think that’s one of the key, the key challenges. And I think the other one is around, around leads. You know, trying to focus too much on on leads, because, of course, that’s what sales always wants. That’s what I always want with my UK MD hat. But that’s not always possible depending on the assets and the you know what you’re working towards.
Mike: That’s interesting. One of the things you know, we’ve seen with some other clients is people are talking about this research that they’re showing. In general, customers are spending more time engaging with marketing materials and less time talking to sales. They talk to sales people later in that sales process. I mean, is that something you’ve seen at shafner, where people are relying more on content and less on talking to salespeople? And then how do you change that balance between marketing and sales to accommodate it?
John: Well, I think we’ve definitely seen that. I think we’ve spoken in the past. Mike, it’s moved on in my early days. And as a salesperson, I was, I don’t know like to use the font of all knowledge, but I had information. So customers would call me for information, for drawings, for specs, all of that is available now. So for salespeople, they don’t have that advantage that that I had 20 years ago that people needed me. So I think from a marketing perspective, now, the challenge is to get people to view that content, and that’s drawing people into the right places, whether that’s through white papers or articles to pull them towards shafter.com in our state, or whether it’s getting them to go to our distributors pages to look for parts, to understand what we’re providing. So I think that’s a different way of talking to customers now than we did 1520, years ago, even 10 years ago to that matter.
Mike: I mean, that’s fascinating. I remember, you know, and some people know that I actually started engineer, then moved into sales. At one point, we had a line of displays, and there were literally less than 100 data books. For the whole of the UK, and working in technical sales, it was easy to get a meeting if someone’s interested in the product, because that was the only way they’re going to get the data to design it in. So I totally agree with you. I think, I think things have changed. It’s interesting. You say it’s now not a case of scarcity of data. There’s there’s just so much information out there. Getting attention is important. I mean, one of the things we see some clients doing is trying to apply, you know, perhaps more tactics associated with consumer marketing rather than B2B marketing. Do you see that happening and trying to get engagement that way with some products?
John: Yes, I think so. And that’s definitely, definitely evolved when you think of B to C, it’s as the name suggested the consumer, and as B2B, we’re really now trying to think about the consumer within the within the B within the business. And so it’s about, you know, for us, trying to build up and profiles or personas within those businesses so that we can start to talk them in the right way, just as you see in the B to C arena, where is very much a much more targeted approach, and that’s you know what we’re doing. So a good example would be, when we’re looking at content that we’re developing, we’re going to do that for a design engineer, or maybe we’re doing it for a for a purchasing manager. And those two things may be very different, clearly, if we’re talking to a design engineer or a compliance engineer, but the level of technical content needs to be higher, whereas, from a procurement perspective, we’re talking to a persona there, then maybe we look at, perhaps more, some of the commercial aspects about service support. You know how easy it is to get the parts, for example. So I think, you know, we’re being much more focused and considerate around how we target those personas, just as the consumer companies do an excellent job, and we in the in the B2B space, need to really think about that. Now, that’s really interesting.
Mike: It sounds like you’re saying that it’s not necessarily a case of just stealing ideas from the consumer sector, it’s much more about rather than thinking you’re talking to a business in the marketing, realizing that your marketing should be talking to a person. Is that, is that what you’re saying?
John: Yes, yeah, exactly. But you know, behind every business, it’s about people. And if you’re in procurement, then the way that you’re measured, rewarded, satisfied, is very different to someone who is within the engineering disciplines. So if you don’t get that content right, you could get it very wrong. And perhaps back to your one of your earlier questions around, what can marketing get wrong is if you speak to that person in the wrong way, you could really damage that relationship, potentially, by giving them something that they certainly don’t want, but also wasting a lot of time. And so we’re really careful about the type of content that we put out there, where we’re pushing it, and making sure that we, you know, we put ourselves in our audience’s shoes, really, and provide them with something that brings real value to them.
Mike: That’s great. I think that’s excellent advice to anyone thinking about building campaigns, is think about the people you’re talking to a little bit earlier. You talked about the need to get marketing and sales closer together, and you’ve also talked about the challenge of creating this highly technical content, which clearly is an engineering input. So do you have a way or an approach of trying to get these three groups, very different groups of salespeople, marketing people and engineers together and working, you know more closely
John: well, we don’t really have a formal approach. It’s almost, you could say it’s almost like start of a joke, actually, isn’t it that you’ve got sales people, technical people and marketers, you know, together in a room, and what happens? But for me, it’s, it’s about communication and and making sure that we understand what each of those stakeholders is is looking for. You know, clearly our more technical team are looking to provide high quality content. Our salespeople are looking for leads and for development of the brand. So how do we pull that together? So? So what we do within Schaffner and I’ve done in in other businesses, is before we start to talk about what we’re going to do, we pull everyone together and to make sure we’re all on the same page. So we’re getting that feedback. It’s also as we go through the process, communicating what’s what’s happening, so that sales aren’t surprised that a content is going out, or where that content is being sent, and for our technical teams that they’re involved, and that if we get questions and feedback from that content, that they’re ready and able to answer that. So we try and provide the right people to the right point within those campaigns, but they all need to be talking together. I’m sure there are more formal ways of doing that, but within a business like ours, we go back to a much more simple route, which is that we just need to communicate and do that well, such a great solution for so many problems.
Mike: Just get people to talk together. I think that’s a great solution. I mean, I guess as well. You know, we talked about the three groups that are marketing, sales and engineering, but there’s almost like a fourth person coming in now, which is AI. What do you see the impact of AI being at the moment? And. Do you think it’s going to just keep going and eating different functions, or do you think there’s some pitfalls we need to be worried about?
John: Well, I think think about the positives are, you know, we talked about all of this data that’s available. The ability of AI to be able to go through that data and pick out the best parts of that data and give you access to all of that data is huge. It’s incredible that that’s possible, and no human is able to do that on their own. That, you know, the concern, or the the challenge is it, it could become quite one dimensional. And then, potentially, if everyone has the same data and they’re using the same AI algorithms, you essentially come up the same thing. So potentially, from a competitive standpoint, you know, we could all be talking roughly the same thing without a real difference in tone. And I think that’s the key. And when I think back to what we’re doing at Schaffner, we talked earlier about our leadership in EMC, that comes down to the people. So we want that to be more than one dimensional. We want it to be real people who really understand the subject in in depth, and it’s about the nuances. And we also need that, not just from our technical people, also from our marketeers, so that when we create that content, it is a far more nuanced approach. You know, we’ve had conversations might before about AI and could AI, you know, write an article? Of course, it can, but it doesn’t have that nuanced approach. And can become a little say me, and that’s, you know, that’s not good enough. It might be good enough for some, but it’s not good enough for us, and we want to make sure that we’re really stepping forward, that we’re leading those conversations. And for me, AI, isn’t that level yet, and maybe never will do, because there is that nuanced approach from from journalists or from our technical people that we need to get out there to our customers.
Mike: It’s really interesting. I mean, one of the themes I’ve heard from you through this interview, John, is that it seems like you have this really clear vision that you have to be seen as the leader in the market, and that’s where you’ll be successful by having that leadership, not by seeing as being seen as being good, but by being seen as being seen as being the best and the most innovative and the most thoughtful, is that a fair reflection of your vision?
John: Yes, yeah. And that comes down to very much how, you know, Schaffner has been built up over the years, and that has been to be the leader in EMC. And I think if you talk to most EMC say, experts or EMC engineers, Schaffner is extremely well known. And if is there as the leader. So, you know, we take that very seriously. So we’re, we’re always working to try and find out what’s what’s coming next, and we’ve, we’ve done that over the last number of years, particularly when we look at campaigns, you know, looking at what’s happening in the market, where are regulations going? And that’s a different conversation around what products do we have? It’s about where the regulations going and how does that impact our customers and our market. And that’s really where we can add value as we move forward.
Mike: That’s very insightful, and I’ve certainly seen it working with Schaffner, where we’ve had conversations about topics. And the question has obviously from us as agency, been what does this mean to customers today? And the answer quite often is, well, really today doesn’t mean very much, but if customers aren’t thinking about it, then it’s going to be a big problem tomorrow. I love that, that forward thinking approach you’ve taken,
John: yeah, and I think that that’s absolutely key. There’s, you know, there’s lots of people making similar products to us, but what they don’t have is that real, in depth understanding of EMC, not working on the committees, understanding where those regulations are going because those regulations, you know, may seem a little way off, but they’ll soon come up. And design cycles are quite long in in our industry, particularly in industrial and it needs to be right. So, you know, the question we ask ourselves is, how can we help our customers navigate through those regulations? Be that sort of level of expertise to help them, support them through that. We may not know all the answers all of the time, but we can start that conversation. We can start to work through that, and that’s what we do with our key customers, and how we start to get that information out of the market. Also provides a lot of really good feedback, you know, our customers hearing about this, and in many cases, they’re not. And then we can start to tailor the content to support the questions that we get back from customers.
Mike: That’s fascinating, and it’s certainly been a, I think, a great approach for Schaffner, talking about looking towards the future. I’m interested. How do you see the role of CMOs and VPs of marketing, and perhaps even your role changing with technology over the next five years?
John: Well, I think it’s going back to our AI discussion, actually, that sort of cmo VP market, to anyone in marketing for that matter, it’s going to be about understanding more about the technology. What does that bring us, in terms of the benefits, but also not falling into those pitfalls where you just take everything into into an AI bot and it create everything for you, because that’s not the answer. So I think it’s about understanding that technology and working with people that understand the technology so that you can use it for the benefit of what you want to achieve. You know, we know that it can take huge amounts of data and collate that and give you access to the answers within in that data, it doesn’t mean everything. Has to be done that way. And you know, the challenge for for us, and I think for everyone in marketing, is, where does it fit? It’s not about replacing everybody, you know, with a with an AI tool. It’s about using it in the best way so that that valuable skills of marketeers can be focused on in the areas where they bring the most value.
Mike: I think that’s that’s a really positive view for marketing in general and the opportunities there. I mean, one of the questions we always like to ask guests is about people starting in marketing, and what would be your advice to someone who’s just starting a career in marketing?
John: I guess good luck would be the first, the first thing. But ultimately, for me, I think it’s about, you know, starting to get a broader, broad understanding of what marketing is, and putting yourselves in in the customer’s shoe. Because when, when you start to sort of look in the mirror a little bit and and start to think about what you’re creating, what you’re doing, and why you’re doing it, and the value that the customer will have, I think then you’ll become a better marketeer. There’s plenty of opportunities to create really fancy content, but if you’re if your customer, you know your consumer is not interested in that, doesn’t matter how good it is, you know they’re not going to engage with that. So I think it’s really sitting down and talking to customers about what they want. So you can then develop that content. And I think the opportunities in marketing are huge, and there’s also that ability to be a little bit more creative than some roles and and for me, marketing should be exciting. It shouldn’t be just all about process. Of course, we need good processes, but if you can’t, if there isn’t a little bit of edge or a little bit of excitement, then marketing’s not really working. I think, you know, within the within the company, you want at least one department to be really enthusiastic about what’s going on in the business, you know, really banging the drum. And that’s what I see marketing, you know, should be doing that’s not just external that’s internal marketing, getting everyone on the same page, enthused about what we’re doing as an organization, and having a bit of excitement. So I think, I think it’s a great career path for anyone. I think it also leads into other areas, potentially, if you’re good at marketing, then there’s a likelihood that you’ve got good communication skills. So that lends itself to, you know, to management and many other areas, you know, within business, so, and, of course, sales itself. So I think a great opportunity for anyone and marketing is only going one way. I think I think up, even though we talk about AI that’s just one element of it that’s great.
Mike: And obviously, potentially the opportunity to end up with two job titles in one?
John: Yes, you know, two, two job titles and just one salary.
Mike: That’s the last question I’ve got for you. You know, you’ve obviously had a long career in marketing. You’ve worked with with a lot of different people. I’m interested to know, from your point of view, what’s the best piece of marketing advice that’s ever been given to you?
John: Well, I think I sort of mentioned it earlier, and that’s about putting yourself in your customers shoes. When you sit, you know, in your home office or the office and you see a piece of material coming through, and if your immediate reaction is I’m going to delete that, that’s where you need to be. Thinking as a marketeer, can I get someone to open that that email? How can I get someone to click on that page, on the website, or that news story? That’s what you need to be thinking about. And it doesn’t matter how good it looks, but it needs to be right for the audience. And we talked about personas, we talked about knowing who your customers are, and if your customers are all technical, then you need to create more technical content. There’s no point. It being very, sort of fluffy, I suppose, commercially based. And the same is true the other way. So I think, I think that’s really key, perhaps for any you know, you go back to the last question about someone starting out in marketing, you know, I’d recommend anyone who’s starting out in marketing is to get out and talk to their own customers. What are they interested in? Because if you understand that you’ve got a better chance that what you’re doing is going to hit the mark, and that’s absolutely key for me,
Mike: John, this has been a fascinating interview. I feel like I could ask you another 100 questions here. It’s been been really enjoyable. But I’d just like to say, you know, thank you so much for being so generous with your time and with your knowledge, and thanks for being a guest on the podcast. No thanks, Mike.
John: It’s always good to talk
Mike: Thanks so much for listening to Marketing B2B Tech. We hope you enjoyed the episode, and if you did, please make sure you subscribe on iTunes or on your favorite podcast application. If you’d like to know more, please visit our website at napierb2b.com or contact me directly on LinkedIn.
