Is Marketo falling behind in the marketing automation space? In this episode, Mike and Hannah discuss the rivalry between HubSpot and Marketo, with HubSpot making moves to lure away Marketo users. They talk about the growth in ad tech spending in the US and Europe and discuss how digital channels are now driving nearly half of B2B revenue. They also offer some tips on using marketing automation to improve the effectiveness of webinars.

Listen to the podcast now via the links below:

About Napier

Napier is a PR-lead, full service marketing agency that specialises in the B2B technology sector. We work closely with our clients to build campaigns, focusing on achieving results that have a significant positive impact on their businesses and which, above all, ensure maximum return on their investment.

About Mike Maynard

Mike is the Managing Director/CEO of Napier, a PR and marketing agency for B2B technology companies. A self-confessed geek who loves talking about technology, he believes that combining the measurement, accountability and innovation that he learnt as an engineer with a passion for communicating ensures Napier delivers great campaigns and tangible return on investment.

About Hannah Wehrly

Hannah is the Head of Business Development and Marketing at Napier and leads on pitching, proposal writing, lead nurturing, email marketing, social media and content creation. Hannah joined the Napier team back in 2017 as a Marketing Specialist after completing her degree in Marketing and Communications, and her role focuses on developing new relationships with potential clients.

Time Stamps

[01:10.0] – Mike and Hannah discuss the growth in ad tech spend.

[02:33.1] – Is HubSpot Overtaking Marketo? Mike and Hannah discuss.

[07:56.2] – Mike and Hannah talk about a recent survey that suggest more than half of B2B revenue is now driven through digital channels.

[13:06.3] – How can you use marketing automation to support your webinars?

Follow Mike and Hannah:

Mike Maynard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikemaynard/

Hannah Wehrly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hannah-wehrly-b0706a107/

Napier website: https://www.napierb2b.com/

Napier LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/napier-partnership-limited/

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Want more? Check out Napier’s other podcast – Marketing B2B Technology: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/marketing-b2b-technology/id1485417724

Transcript: Marketing Automation Moment Episode 19 – The Changing Landscape of Marketing Automation – HubSpot vs. Marketo

Speakers: Mike Maynard, Hannah Wherly

Hannah: Hannah, welcome to the Marketing Automation Moment podcast, I’m Hannah Kelly

Mike: and I’m Mike Maynard. This is Napier’s podcast to tell you about the latest news from the world of marketing automation.

Hannah: Welcome to the Marketing Automation Moment podcast, I’m Hannah Wherly

Mike: And I’m Mike Maynard,

Hannah: and today we discuss the crazy growth in ad tech spend.

Mike: HubSpot trying to steal away customers from Marketo the growth of online B to B sales, and Hannah tells me how to make best use of contacts that register for webinars.

Hannah: Hi Mike, welcome back to another episode of the market automation. Moment. How you doing?

Mike: I’m not too bad still recovering from the great Napier Rounders tournament. But apart from that, having a really good time,

Hannah: Well, at least we came away Victoria. So that’s what counts.

Mike: Well, yes, I mean, in case anyone from Napier’s listening our side one anyway, let’s, let’s get on, let’s start talking about market automation, because I think there’s been quite a lot happening in the last couple of weeks.

Hannah: Last couple of weeks. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, did you want to talk a little bit about the ad tech study that we’ve come across?

Mike: Yeah, so you flagged this to me. I thought it was really interesting. If you look at it, ad tech is definitely not going away. The forecast from Juniper research is that from about 27 billion in the current year, it’s going to grow to a spend of about 43 and a half billion by 2029 so there’s still massive growth in the spending on ad tech.

Hannah: I know when we look at those figures, it’s really crazy to see, but what interested me was that the two biggest areas of growth was actually North America, followed by Central and East Europe, although we do know what you’ll do in America, you know, splitting out Central and East Europe to make America look bigger. So you know. But for me, that really aligns with what we’re seeing in the areas of growth within marketing with us as an agency itself. So it’s interesting to see that the kind of ad tech industries also following suit?

Mike: Yeah, absolutely. And I think there may also be some factors going on in the Far East with the fact people use different platforms and take different approaches. You know, in China, for example, WeChat is huge, and you’re using much less of the more generic, you know, web based ad tech. So I’m not sure you can really drive a direct comparison between different regions and say one is more advanced than the other, but it’s certainly interesting that we’re seeing no end to that spending in Europe and the US.

Hannah: Absolutely, absolutely. So let’s sort of move on, Mike, because I’m actually really excited to get your viewpoint on this, because I came across a webinar by HubSpot, which was basically focused on how HubSpot marketing, hub is more advanced than Marketo, and how marketers can migrate from Marketo to HubSpot. Now, this is the first time I’ve ever seen anything so direct so so like, you know, move away from our competitors. I mean, I actually applaud them, because the landing page was the landing page of my dreams. It was beautiful. It had, you know, other pain points, challenges that you get with migration. What do you think about them being so direct?

Mike: I’m going to call it now. I think Marketo is in trouble. You know, HubSpot, for a start, they’re not stupid. I’m sure they’ve used a tool like HubSpot, for example, to find out what people are searching for. And quite clearly, they’ve seen a trend where people are looking to migrate away from Marketo. We’ve also seen it as well. You know, I think what’s happening with Salesforce is Salesforce are offering their customers marketing cloud a very aggressive price. And frankly, Marketo is looking expensive. I mean, it used to be, and there’s a famous line in lad in the UK, for people like in the UK, that a beer was reassuringly expensive, or Marketo used to be reassuringly expensive, and now it’s becoming frighteningly expensive. And I think brands have got to the point where they’re saying, no, they’re not going to pay this Marketo premium. And I think that, you know, other competitors, like Salesforce and HubSpot have seen an opportunity, and they’re eating into that market share. So to me, this is a really important point in the world of market automation, because I could see a major change, and I could see, you know, more and more organizations moving away from, you know, frankly, what is one of the premier, if not the premier player in the market? It’s both exciting and also a little concerning as well.

Hannah: I mean, I fully agree, and I actually want to take us back to a conversation we had maybe about two months ago on the podcast, and that was when HubSpot actually changed their pricing model, and so they introduced the different seats. And, you know, we said at the time, I wonder if this is actually going to affect anything. Will marketers, you know, find this helpful? And I think you’re seeing that, yes they are. And you’re so right about the price point of Marketo and, you know, Salesforce and HubSpot, you could arguably say, are maybe broken down a bit more into the licenses of what you can buy into. What you don’t want to use, and Marketo maybe needs to relook at their pricing structure and see how they can be similar.

Mike: I totally agree. I mean, you know, this is a message to the guys at Marketo, the world has changed, and your competitors have caught up. And yes, it’s true that, you know, if you look back a few years, Marketo was able to scale to far greater levels anyone else and was far more practical. With big data sets. That’s no longer the case, and a lot of the competitors are actually selling really good products at a much lower price. And this is going to move the market. And I think we’re going to see this change. We’re also probably going to see the likes of HubSpot challenged by other cheaper products at the low end of the market. So I don’t think HubSpot is going to have it all their own way, but the world is changing, and I think that some of the more established market automation vendors, they could be in trouble unless they recognize this and change their strategies.

Hannah: Oh, absolutely, Mike, that’s such a great point. And I for one, are actually quite excited, because I’m excited to see the marketing materials. And I’m not saying they’re all going to war, but I think it’s going to be interesting to see how the market unfolds.

Mike: You make such a good point there, Hannah, and I think, you know, it’s got to the point now where the reasons to change are much bigger than the reasons to stay. I mean, previously, people typically, when they signed up with a market automation platform, they really didn’t want to move because of the pain of moving. And don’t get me wrong, there’s incredible pain in moving from one vendor to another, and we’ve done it in APO. We’ve had clients who’ve done it. It’s, it’s really hard. But I think you’re right. I think that, you know, more and more customers are going to be prepared to change. They’re looking for savings. They’re looking for products that are benefited to what they want. And we’re going to see some, you know, real big moves in the market. It’s gonna be exciting to see what happens.

Hannah: Absolutely and you know, I would just add to that, you know, as you said, we migrated. So a few years ago we migrated from HubSpot to sharp spring. And what HubSpot is communicating is exactly the blogs and the landing pages that I wish I had at the time when we were migrating platforms. So it also seems as well as like, this isn’t a one off thing. This is a thought through strategy. They know what’s happening. They know what marketers are looking for. And if I was using Marketo right now and I came across that webinar, I’d be like, Wow, this is exactly what I’m looking for.

Mike: Yeah, it’s gonna be exciting.

Hannah: Well, let’s move on, Mike, because I want to talk about a B to B survey. So this was conducted by three Gen to really understand the challenges and opportunities that B to B organizations are facing. Interestingly, it was around 650 B to B professionals that took place across the USA, UK, France and Germany, and I think it revealed some quite interesting stats. So, you know, I’m going to kick us off, and then we could have a little bit of chat. But I think one of the things that I really loved was that they said that digital channels are accounting for nearly half of their total company revenue.

Mike: And I think this is a surprise. I mean, maybe the first thing to say is, you know, the study was conducted, obviously, for a customer. People pay for these things. The customer is a kenio, which is a product information management, a PIM system. So their business is selling to people who sell online. So there’s a lot of incentives to get these results. I’m not saying the results have been, you know, skewed, or the audience has been handpicked, but you’ve got to look at it and say, maybe this is a little bit high. I mean, 50% for B to B seems quite a high number for online sales. Having said that, without doubt, the number is high and it’s growing quickly. So you know, whether you think it’s it’s accurate, or whether you think that, you know, maybe it’s a little high and you know, it’s 10% high, it really doesn’t matter, because in a couple of years, it’s going to be right. You be right, and then we’ll be overtaking it. So it is really exciting. I think online sales for B to B, they’re definitely growing. Maybe in some areas they’re never going to be there. I mean, we worked with people who, you know, provide infrastructure to large environments. So for example, in airport infrastructure, that’s not going to be an online sale ever. You know, that’s a complex sale. But in a lot of other areas of B to B, I think basically customers, they don’t want to talk to salespeople. They can get the information from the marketing materials, and they’ll go and buy online. So it’s a great servant. I love the fact you highlighted it.

Hannah: You made a really great point there, Mike, that people don’t want to speak to sales. And this is something that we’ve seen as a trend. I mean, maybe for the last year and a half, it’s been something that we’ve been speaking about. And you know, the survey said that 52 of these respondents were actually focusing on making their product information more available online, because the marketing materials are so much more important than ever. And I think I have a question for you, actually, because, you know, we’ve talked about them making it more online, but is this through market automation? Is this through their website? Is this through things like marketplaces, or is it a little bit of everything?

Mike: I mean, it’s a really good question. And obviously akinio, who sponsored the survey, is hoping that. Because companies want to put more product information online, they’ll go buy PIMS, and they’ll hopefully go to Kenya. So I think you know that that is kind of the motivation behind the survey. You’ve always got to take these surveys with a pinch of salt. Course, having said that, I think for sure, B to B is is lagging consumer in terms of online sales, and while some companies are very good at getting information online, other companies are not so good. And there is a real need from a large number of B to B companies to enable online sales by giving customers sufficient information online to be able to purchase without being being bothered by a salesperson. You know, I used to be a salesperson, so I’m not anti salesperson, but sometimes you’re just not needed. You’re just getting the way. And so it’s really important that companies look at this and think about it and work out, you know, what their e commerce strategy is. And you did mention something I thought was was really interesting. Of the survey, nine out of 10 said that they were going to use marketplaces more in the next two years. You know, this is interesting, because a lot of B to B companies today, they’re selling through their own website. It’s quite formal channels to move to marketplaces. That’s a big change, because to some extent, there’s a bit of a lack of control there.

Hannah: I think that’s a great point. Mike, can you expand a little bit on why you think there’s a lack of control? I’m interested, and I’m interested. I’m sure our listeners are too.

Mike: It’s a great question. But obviously, you know, in a marketplace, effectively, you’ve got a website that’s trying to connect buyers and sellers. So whilst you can list your products, you can’t really control what else is listed. So you’re going to get competitors. You’re potentially even going to get counterfeit products on the marketplace. We ran a survey recently for a client. Can’t talk too much about it, because the results are coming out soon, but the interesting thing was, was that actually there was identified a problem with counterfeits, and there was also actually very little desire from the buyers to increase their activity on marketplaces. They felt less secure. I think on those marketplaces so interesting. You know, businesses are pushing harder on marketplaces. I’m not surprised. It gives them a much bigger audience. It gives a much bigger reach, rather than using their website. But having said that, maybe the buyers have been burnt, perhaps, you know, it’s a little bit less controlled, so I don’t know what’s going to happen. I think the one thing we can be sure about is that, you know, e commerce in B to B, it’s certainly not a fad. It’s growing. And I think companies need to understand more and more how to enable transactions online, because that’s what their customers want. Don’t you agree? Oh,

Hannah: I fully agree, Mike. And I think you made some fantastic points there, because, as you said, the high number are looking at marketplaces, but that shouldn’t be the only avenue. And really setting up your website. And then, you know, the following kind of nurturing outside of that for success, for e commerce is absolutely should be a focus. Totally agree. But this is a good segue, actually, Mike, because let’s move on to our insightful Tip of the Week. And this week, I want to talk about webinars and how you can use your marketing automation platform to support your webinars. Do you have any initial thoughts?

Mike: Well, I think I should throw this back to you. I mean, you’re the one who runs the webinars at Napier and I, surprisingly, for once, have talked way too much of this podcast. So I’d love to hear what you think about, you know, using market automation for webinars, both before and after the event.

Hannah: That’s a fantastic question. Mike, and I think the first thing that I’m going to say is that you must be syncing up your webinar platform to your market automation platform. If you are not, you are missing one of the biggest trick in the books, and you can do this directly. So you know, some market automation platforms normally the bigger name, so HubSpot, Marketo, Salesforce, you can sync directly into platforms like webinar geek, for example. Or you might have a smaller market automation platform like sharp spring that won’t have integrations, and that’s where you really need to use a platform, something like Sapir, where you can build that integration into the platforms. Now at Napier, and we do this for several of our clients as well, send in several emails that sync up into these platforms. Is so vital to raising awareness to your database of your webinar. And I would say you need to be sending a minimum three four ahead of your webinar. But the fantastic thing about making sure that these platforms are synced is really the follow up, because someone might not be in our database. They might sign up directly through webinar geek and then into the contact is created in the demarc automation platform. I can then use that for follow up. We can send emails. We can enroll them into our lead nurturing sequences, and to me, that’s one of the biggest benefits, because you narrow down your manual work of making sure that the people who signed up for your webinar are actually being nurtured at the same. Time.

Mike: I think that’s great advice. Hannah, I mean, I hear a lot of people getting frustrated because the days of the pandemic were kind of the golden age of the webinar, where lots of people with nothing much else to do were coming to webinars. It was fairly easy to get attendance. Now it’s much harder. And I think a lot of our clients are very focused on getting attendance, but they missed the point. Actually, you know, the most important thing is that follow up afterwards. And as you emphasize having a plan or a strategy to use those contacts to nurture them and build them into opportunities and customers, I think that’s an excellent insightful tip.

Hannah: Thank you, Mike. And I think, yeah, I would just add to it is, I think people get lost in the quantity of numbers, but really it should be the quality of people that are signing up for your webinars and the people you want to add to your database. So to me, a webinar has always been an avenue for growing your database, and I would rather have 25 really high quality people that we can speak to, rather than 100 people who we’re never going to speak to again. And that’s one thing I think both our clients and you know, the guys listening to this podcast really keep in mind.

Mike:  Love it, and it’s probably the story of digital, isn’t it? It’s not about the volume, it’s about the quality, something we keep talking about.

Hannah: Absolutely well, thanks for another great conversation.

Mike: Thanks Hannah, and hopefully our listeners will subscribe to the podcast and hear us on the next episode in a couple of weeks.

Hannah: Thanks for listening to the Marketing Automation Moment podcast.

Mike: Don’t forget to subscribe in your favorite podcast application, and we’ll see you next time you.

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